Third Spacing

🎙️ 𝐓𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐝𝐚𝐲: 𝐓𝐨𝐩 𝟏𝟎 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐬𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐬 🎙️

Half a Decade Deep. Third Spacing, still keeping it fresh. Join us as we revisit memorable moments from our most popular episodes!

5️⃣: What do you do when your priorities change?

In our latest episode, we're excited to introduce Faith, a 2021 NUS graduate and current PGY3 working as a locum GP. Faith broke her bond to pursue a different path and shares her journey through her blog, "Chasing Faith and Love," where she candidly discusses her struggles in the medical system and offers advice to prospective students.

Faith began blogging monthly during her horsemanship, sharing her challenges, long hours, and thoughts on the healthcare system. Her goal is to help even one person feel less alone. Writing for her blog also serves as a personal reflection, allowing her to track her growth. Despite the risks of being vulnerable online, Faith believes that exposing her emotions can help others feel understood. She encourages others to pursue their true passions, even in the face of societal expectations, as she did by breaking her bond - a privilege her family supported financially. Faith emphasises defining success beyond a narrow career focus, advocating for a life rich in hobbies, family, and values rather than traditional notions of achievement. This mindset was reinforced during a three-month sabbatical to New Zealand, Korea, and Australia, where she experienced a life-oriented approach prioritising personal fulfilment over work.

In her professional journey, Faith encountered a toxic work culture, prompting her advocacy for speaking up and seeking support. As a locum, she enjoys the autonomy and personal connections with patients, contrasting with the impersonal nature of ward rounds. Looking ahead, Faith aims to find sustainable and meaningful work that aligns with her values and allows her to give back to the community. She plans to continue her monthly blog posts, explore psychology, and advocate for mental health. Long-term, she aspires to write a book on parenting in a competitive society like Singapore.

Faith wants listeners to remember that we are more than our careers and societal definitions of success. You are enough, and it's important to lead a life that makes you happy. Join us as we explore Faith’s journey and her vision for a fulfilling life.

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTefuGE3HWw&t=11s
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7xBc3HU8lfjdoqEO2aobh4?si=293e3384e4bf4397

What do you do when your priorities change? | Third Spacing Podcast In this episode, we speak to Faith Nadine, a PGY2 who now practices as a locum GP and blogs at Chasing Faith and Love. We honestly talk about her reasons for...

Victoria Wondersnatch is a drag queen who is also a clinician-scientist. In this episode, we discuss her journey in combining these two paths. In our episode, Wondersnatch shared how their journey started with watching YouTube make-up tutorials, performing in modest gatherings, and now starring in and writing regularly sold out larger-than-life spectacles with Drag Qabaret.

Now, Wondersnatch also runs her own YouTube channel where she integrates her research in dermatology and hair biology into their make-up tutorials. Makeup and hair products are used to radically transform and craft a drag queen’s appearance. ‘‘The way that you wear your hair, the way that you react when you start to lose your hair is hugely affected by the way society has told us what our hair means to us’. Wondersnatch can combine this experience with her scientific knowledge to expertly discuss gender-affirming dermatology and evidence-based approaches to skincare that center patient’s experiences.

Drag Qabaret is more than a platform of self-expression, but Wondersnatch also uses this platform to support charitable causes. In their interview, Wondersnatch shares that Qabaret raised at least $100,000 of funds from their performances, and amongst other causes have been used to support filmmakers to produce films about stigma and discrimination among people who are living with HIV.

Join us as we delve into the world of Victoria Wondersnatch, where drag meets science, and every performance is a celebration of diversity and empowerment.

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKKe6-QNUmU
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4fhr6pAvOskLMfHtYevO9r?si=791d1ecb98364d74
Follow Victoria Wondersnatch: https://youtube.com/?si=uG6KAYB8wyXmz5Jk

Also check out Victoria's video on HIV Stigma and Discrimination! It's an outreach project with GayHealth.sg!

Other Local Resources:
- Community Groups for LGBT resources in Singapore (https://bit.ly/2CBV2GP)
- The T Project (https://www.thetprojectsg.org/)
- Oogachaga's Transgender Guide (https://oogachaga.com/transgender-res)

How to Slay in Medicine? | Third Spacing Podcast Victoria Wondersnatch is a drag queen who is also a clinician-scientist. In this episode, we discuss her journey in combining these two paths. In our episode...

🎙️ 𝐓𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐝𝐚𝐲: 𝐓𝐨𝐩 𝟏𝟎 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐬𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐬 🎙️

Half a Decade Deep. Third Spacing, still keeping it fresh. Join us as we revisit memorable moments from our most popular episodes!

3️⃣: How do we deal with dying patients?

In this 2 part episode, we have the honour of hosting Dr. Cynthia Goh, a trailblazing figure in the realm of palliative care and end-of-life support.

Her journey began with a remarkable group of volunteers who identified a critical issue: individuals were experiencing agonising deaths at home with minimal support from the healthcare system. Recognising the desire of many to receive care in the comfort of their own homes, these volunteers pioneered a home service initiative that would later evolve into the renowned organisation, HCA – the largest of its kind, established in 1989.

Dr. Goh unravels the essence of palliative care as not merely a medical practice, but a profound philosophy of caring for the individual. She prompts us to ponder essential questions: Who is this person we are caring for? Who were they before illness took hold? Who are they now in this moment of need? This approach, rooted in person-centred care, challenges the traditional notions of medicine, which often focus solely on diagnosis and treatment.

Drawing from her wealth of experience, Dr. Goh sheds light on the distinction between palliative care and palliative medicine. Palliative care, she explains, is a holistic system of care that demands interdisciplinary collaboration to address the multifaceted needs of patients – physical, emotional, social, and spiritual. Palliative medicine, on the other hand, primarily concerns the physical aspects of care, requiring a solid medical foundation and management plan.

Yet, the relevance of palliative care extends far beyond those facing end-of-life challenges. Dr. Goh underscores its role in offering a different perspective to the practice of medicine at large, challenging the notion that death is an avoidable endpoint.

Join us as we explore these profound insights with Dr. Cynthia Goh, illuminating the path towards a more compassionate and holistic approach to end-of-life care.

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbJko-b0518
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/64czOX5RQ8ImSC3ru4KotI?si=ca542f7200d248da

How do we deal with dying patients? | Third Spacing Podcast In this two-part episode, we commemorate the life of Prof. Cynthia Goh who passed away due to pancreatic cancer on Feb 13th 2022. In the previous part, Prof....

🎙️ 𝐓𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐝𝐚𝐲: 𝐓𝐨𝐩 𝟏𝟎 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐬𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐬 🎙️

Half a Decade Deep. Third Spacing, still keeping it fresh. Join us as we revisit memorable moments from our most popular episodes!

2️⃣: Why aren't we more afraid of climate change?

“There is growing evidence that climate change is increasingly having stronger and longer-lasting impacts on people, and this can directly and indirectly affect their mental health and psychological well-being.” This was released by the World Health Organisation (WHO) in their 12 page policy brief during the Stockholm +50 conference to mark World Environment Day, back in 2022. With the concept of Eco-Anxiety becoming relatively pertinent whenever mental health discussions are being brought up, the report heavily emphasises on the need to integrate and make climate change a key consideration in mental health relative interventions.

3 years ago, we interviewed Dr. Denise Dillon. Associate professor in Psychology at James Cook University, where she provides us with some insight on what Eco-anxiety is about, and the impact it could have on us in the foreseeable future. She touches on why we might be averse to tackling the climate crisis - a threat that isn’t happening fast enough for people to recognise and respond to. Dr Denise also explains to us how medical professionals could be better equipped to deal with eco anxiety, from a mental health standpoint.

As Singaporeans are typically quite disconnected from nature (given how over the generations of technological focussed changes, people have fewer opportunities to immerse themselves in our country’s green landscape), there is a need to understand the psychological repercussions that could arise from such. How then, can we build the bridge between healing and health?

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jcV34wHLSc&t=164s
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/709iuhNb0SyHOBQh8ZnBoD?si=CDJ08cP-RjSvS5qKRpW6wg

Why aren't we more afraid of climate change? |Third Spacing Podcast In this episode, we interview Dr Denise Dillon, Associate Professor in Psychology at James Cook University, in a special collaboration with The Weird and Wil...

🎙️ 𝐓𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐛𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐓𝐡𝐮𝐫𝐬𝐝𝐚𝐲: 𝐓𝐨𝐩 𝟏𝟎 𝐄𝐩𝐢𝐬𝐨𝐝𝐞𝐬 🎙️

Half a Decade Deep. Third Spacing, still keeping it fresh. Join us as we revisit memorable moments from our most popular episodes!

Starting with 1️⃣: Why doctors need to be more than just doctors?

"Most medical schools are more about 'sick care' rather than healthcare. The focus has always been on understanding disease and treating it... but is that right? I don't think so." Professor Chong Yap Seng, Dean of NUS Medicine said in a newspaper article in 2022. He suggested the shifting of focus of medical education to further support emerging needs of the public health system, such as health economics, health systems and research into human potential.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/knowledge-gaps-must-be-addressed-for-clinicians-to-better-support-public-health-system-nus-medicine-dean

Three years ago, we interviewed Prof Chong where he first discussed the MBBS intercalated year programme (IYP) publicly, which was eventually launched in 2022. The IYP allows medical students to take an academic year off to take on another area of study.

https://medicine.nus.edu.sg/news/class-of-2023-medical-doctors-who-are-already-making-waves-in-healthcare/

Then, we also discussed the use of the medical humanities in helping medical students navigate a patient's journey from outside to within the clinic.

As Singapore shifts towards strengthening primary care, we could also hope to introduce a different depth to the way we care for our patients - beyond just treating the disease, towards improving healthcare as a system.

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vx57McVDxk&t=134s
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3amx9vYNDZv6BTbqDpaOJJ?si=b18adb9911ba405c

Why doctors need to be more than just doctors? |Third Spacing Podcast Prof Chong Yap Seng, Dean of NUS Medicine, talks about the waves that are changing medicine and how medical students can preserve our core sense of humanity ...

Today is International Transgender Day of Visibility!

In our latest episode, we spoke to one of the pioneers of gender affirming care in Singapore, Dr Tsoi Wing Foo, a distinguished psychiatrist with over 60 years of expertise in the field. Dr Tsoi devoted his career to the welfare of transgender people. In his career, he was the director of the now Institute for Mental Health, and set up the department of Psychiatry at National University hospital.

Dr Tsoi has seen over 2000 transgender patients, whom he provided psychological assessment prior to surgery. Even while in private practice, he charged his transgender patients a low consultation fee to ensure care was affordable. He contributed to local literature on gender affirming care, and co-wrote the book Cries from Within, published in 1991, with surgeon Professor SS Ratnam, which delves into the struggles encountered by transgender communities in Singapore,and available treatment options are.

In this episode, Dr Tsoi dissects the obstacles that the transgender community has to confront, but the initial resistance he faced from the medical community. Dr Tsoi emphasises the importance of access to hormone therapy and gender change surgery in gender affirming care. He also underscores the importance for a societal paradigm shift, fostering an environment of acceptance and inclusion towards such individuals.

For all of us wanting to lead a purpose driven life, centred upon serving populations with unmet needs, this is for you.

Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Owavdx4X4

Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SQ2gKxHUHoXXgJz164SH7?si=eOIdOWk6RnS5J8hVnXvPmQ

How can we build spaces for gender-affirming care? |Third Spacing Podcast Dr. Tsoi Wing Foo is a renowned psychiatrist with over 60 years of experience in the field. He dedicated his career to the care of transgender people and is ...

A Conversation on Burnout is finally here! Listen to the podcast on Spotify or watch the video podcast on YouTube (links in bio)

We are heartened and grateful for your continued support as Third Spacing launches into a new era of video podcasts. We are very excited for you to see all the other projects we have been working on, and we hope that you can feel heard in our space.

Dr Gerald Sng, Senior Resident in Endocrinology, Singhealth, shares his perspective as a researcher of junior doctor burnout. In our first ever video episode, Dr Sng discusses the factors contributing to high rates of burnout among junior doctors, and explores what can be done to address it. He draws insight from his research into residents and medical students in Singapore, informed by his own experiences navigating the healthcare system. Dr Sng also draws a connection between empathy and burnout, and shares how they might be two sides of the same coin.

We hope you enjoy the episode!

Youtube https://youtu.be/Hgfb5h0MQio?si=BfTYWNPSRQvC1oMG
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/6uwveS8puDQ0ndwDf8pvPo?si=4432a509ce384482

We're back from our hiatus! Stay tuned for our first episode of the year which will be released over the next few weeks!

𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐰𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐭 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐫𝐮𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚 𝐩𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭?

Third Spacing was started to learn about important topics in healthcare not covered by the current, already packed, curriculum.

In order to bridge this gap, we had to speak to people who were educated very differently from us.

In a world rife with divisions, we sometimes shut ourselves from people who hold very different beliefs from us.

A big barrier to authentic connection is the fear of conflict, and looking stupid.

Here are 3 lessons in having meaningful conversations and extrapolated to life at large:

𝟏. 𝐃𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐡𝐨𝐦𝐞𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤

In all our episodes with our guests, we spend an extensive amount of time researching our interviewees, reading all possible public material available.

In emotionally charged issues, we too have the responsibility of educating ourselves. This means, intentionally look at literature, that is not within our comfort zone. Without a common understanding, conversations tend to be directionless.

𝟐. 𝐀𝐬𝐬𝐮𝐦𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐦𝐨𝐬𝐭 𝐩𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐠𝐨𝐨𝐝 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐬.

Seeing people as fundamentally bad, would put us off the initial conversation starter.
Instead, if we view individuals as doing the best, that they could, at that point time, with the resources they had, this would help to reduce the inertia to reach out, and our ability to see points of differences as discussion, rather than arguments.

𝟑. 𝐏𝐥𝐚𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠 𝐠𝐚𝐦𝐞

An authentic conversation cannot take place if we approach it as a debate to win.

Trying to convince someone to change their perspectives on issues, would only build greater resistance.

Acknowledging the validity of their perspective, will help reduce friction in the short-term, and build trust and goodwill for a second conversation.

We aim to create work that our audiences didn’t know that they needed - so we can broaden our horizons, bit by bit.

Up next, we will be sharing our highlights and your top 10 favourite episodes.

𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐰𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐭 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐦𝐚𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠

Our goal, at Third Spacing, is to scale conversations for change.

Yet, as we found - changemaking is very, very difficult - even more so as junior members of the healthcare community.

In trying to create change, it’s easy to give up.

Rather than pushing against resistance, we decided to first build mutual understanding, by raising awareness of the “other” perspective.

In having conversations with distinguished interviewees, we learnt to be humble with our ignorance, and yet to not shy away from the question that everyone wants to ask, yet doesn't dare to.

We hope that our conversations can model mutual dialogues on our common future - eventually shifting norms.

With every awkward conversation, we hope to build up little strides, moving towards the inflexion point of change. Look out for our next post on what learnt on the art of conversation.

𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐰𝐞 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐀𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐓𝐞𝐚𝐦 𝐁𝐮𝐢𝐥𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠

Third Spacing is run by healthcare workers/students, who are passionate about improving healthcare systems.

Over the course of three years, we’ve come to realise, that passion is just but one part of the picture.

As in healthcare, where we have to work in multidisciplinary teams, running a podcast from conceptualisation, to recording, editing, publishing and promotion requires team work.

When speaking to other healthcare workers who are working on their passion projects - we often get asked - How did we manage to record and publish 70 episodes as a team?

𝟏. 𝐌𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐀𝐬𝐲𝐧𝐜𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐨𝐮𝐬 𝐰𝐨𝐫𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬.

Burnout occurs when stress exceeds coping.

With our members needing to work or study for exams - we often lead our planning discussions with our member’s busy and less-busy periods, enabling us to set expectations and reasonable deadlines.

This does not compromise outcomes, and in fact, improves product delivery. When our team’s human needs are cared for - this allows our team to be fully present.

𝟐. 𝐏𝐥𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧 𝐚𝐝𝐯𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐥𝐨𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐢𝐦𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐬

We come from a generation expecting immediacy, and obsessed with efficiency.

Together with asynchronous working timelines, we learnt to organise our work differently. At the beginning of an academic year or during holidays, we would “mass produce” and prioritise time-heavy tasks such as recording and editing - allowing us to fine tune our publication date.

𝟑. 𝐂𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐧 𝐨𝐩𝐞𝐧, 𝐧𝐨𝐧-𝐣𝐮𝐝𝐠𝐞𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐚𝐥 𝐞𝐧𝐯𝐢𝐫𝐨𝐧𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐨𝐫𝐦 𝐚 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐮𝐧𝐢𝐭𝐲

In the workplace, it is not uncommon for us to be unkind to colleagues whom we might perceive as underperforming or find themselves not fitting in their teams.

Even with advanced planning - we recognise that everyone individual’s circumstances are different.

At Third Spacing, we ensure a common channel and a culture of openness - where we can have kind, unfiltered exchanges - on when we are struggling and need to receive help; or when there is an idea we feel and believe strongly in and want to pursue.

𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐰𝐞 𝐥𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐮𝐬 𝐟𝐚𝐫 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐫𝐮𝐧𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚 𝐩𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭?

Running a podcast for the past three years, whilst as a student, and now as a healthcare worker has not been easy. Our greatest accomplishment thus far, perhaps, is mere existence and the discipline in keeping up to a fortnightly schedule.

This past year, we’ve been reflecting deeply about our impact.

Initially, we fretted.

While we made some impact (which we will share in an upcoming highlights series!) - we often felt it was not enough. By most metrics of success in media - we were a failure.

Yet, with intentional reflection, we’ve come to realised to center our own definitions of success - and that included learning so much more about the world outside of medicine.

As we make this transition from student project to a loosely defined initiative, with 70 episodes under our belt, we’re determined to go far - and up.

A senior clinician whom we deeply admire once said, that after a failure, our job is to ensure that we learn from our failure, and don’t repeat our mistakes. Otherwise, we would be doing future patients a disservice.

We are eager to serve our audience better.

We will touch on team building, content curation, changemaking and more!

We've been talking to many of you - wanting to know how we can do better.

We heard you.

Launching in January 2024 - we have been making important preparations for the year ahead.

We couldn't wait and wanted to share a sneak peek!

1. Video podcasts
Most communication is non-verbal - with video, we hope that you can get to know our interviewees and hosts better.

2. In person events
While we have conversations with our heroes, change happens in a community. We hope to organise events to bring our listeners, interviewees and our team, together.

3. Patient centric narrative-led podcasts
Currently we are working with a patient with a genetic condition, and interviewing them and their community. Through a series of episodes - we hope to bridge the healthcare worker - patient divide.

Watch this space!

Third Spacing is a small podcast with big dreams of one day influencing healthcare systems to be human centric. Run by healthcare students/workers, it started as a COVID project, when we were stuck in our homes, and couldn’t go to the hospitals to learn from patients. Working on Third Spacing has been nothing short but rewarding - we had a singular focus on making clear the intersection between healthcare and wider society.

For the past three years, we studied while producing two episodes a month. It was exhausting and it's been surprising that we’ve managed to hit 70 episodes!

With successes we had in surfacing conversations on inclusive healthcare, climate change, alternative pathways for junior doctors, the responsibility we felt towards our patients deepened.

Watch this space for reflections on our past, and plans for our future!

We are going on hiatus!

Our team is taking a short break to recharge, regroup and come back stronger. We will be back in January 2024 with exciting updates and fresh content!

Stay tuned and do continue listening to our episodes!

Third Spacing is a podcast that aims to scale honest conversations for change. Run by healthcare workers and students, we aim to use health as a starting point for wider change.

Started in 2020 as a COVID project, publishing episodes bi-weekly, we now have almost 70 episodes. We speak to clinicians, academics, and members of civil society who are committed to improving lives, and expand what we think about care delivery.

Find us all major podcast platforms!