Beaver Trust

Beaver Trust

Beaver Trust is a registered charity working to restore beavers to regenerate our landscapes.

Timeline photos 08/12/2023

Beavers have returned to Lincolnshire after 400 years! 🎉

Earlier this week, we released a pair of beavers into an enclosure at Wild Wrendale of Wrendale Designs by Hannah Dale. We are looking forward to seeing how the pair will transform the land and how the site will evolve over the coming months and years.

You can read more about this release in our news article below 👇
https://buff.ly/41fZLoX

📷 Wild Wrendale

Timeline photos 07/12/2023

Exciting opportunity - we're hiring!

We’re looking for an enthusiastic Administration Support Officer to join the team to provide crucial support to our CEO and ensure the smooth operation of our governance processes. Key responsibilities include:

🤝CEO support: scheduling meetings, drafting reports, and providing comprehensive administrative assistance.
📊 Governance support: preparing meeting agendas, taking minutes, supporting board member recruitment, and ensuring compliance with governance processes.
📁 Central administration: organising team meetings, managing the filing system, and ensuring GDPR compliance.

Requirements:
Strong administrative skills
Excellent communication and interpersonal skills
Safe and secure home workspace
Occasional travel within Britain

If you're passionate about making a positive impact and have the skills we're looking for, apply now! 👇

https://buff.ly/45nGlzs

05/12/2023

Beavers are coming back to the Cairngorms!

NatureScot has today approved a licence application from the Cairngorms National Park to release up to six beaver families at agreed sites in the upper River Spey catchment.

This will be the first out-of-range translocation in Scotland and will make a significant contribution to the delivery of the Scottish Beaver Strategy.

Availability of beavers and weather conditions depending, the first families are expected to be released in the National Park very soon.

This has been an exemplary project, with well-planned local engagement, carried out by an exceptional team, which we’re proud to have contributed to.

Read more about the announcement 👇

https://buff.ly/480iFCj

Read NatureScot's announcement about the licence approval 👇

https://buff.ly/46LyHz1

Timeline photos 05/12/2023

You did it!

Thanks to your generosity, we've raised £15,000 to support restoration.

We can't thank all of the 142 donors who contributed to our Big Give Christmas Challenge enough.

Timeline photos 04/12/2023

Less than 24 hours to help us restore beavers!

We are so close to reaching our goal, but only have until noon tomorrow when the Big Give appeal closes.

Every £1 donated results in £2 towards beaver restoration👇

https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

Photos from Beaver Trust's post 04/12/2023

Last week we released two beavers to
RSPB Loch Lomond putting key aims into action for Scotland's National Beaver Strategy.

Beaver Trust's Head of Restoration, Dr Roisin Campbell-Palmer says: 'Successful releases such as this continue to demonstrate that conservation translocations are a key tool we can use to support land managers experiencing conflict while actively expanding the beaver population into other appropriate areas.'

You can read all about the release and its significance for Scotland in this blog by RSPB: https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/loch-lomond-and-black-devon-wetlands/posts/exciting-beaver-news

And if you would like to support us in bringing back to Britain, you can donate via The Big Give below. Every £1 you donate *before midday tomorrow* will be doubled through match funding!

https://donate.biggive.org/campaign/a056900002RXsEEAA1

Timeline photos 04/12/2023

Applications close at 5pm today for our freelance administration support role, which will focus on overseas beaver projects.

Join us in making a positive impact! 👇
https://beavertrust.org/our-mission/careers/

We have an exciting opportunity for a freelance administrator to provide support for our Restoration Team on multiple overseas projects.

As an administrator, you'll play a key role in coordinating various stages of project work, including arranging initial scoping calls within country teams, managing feedback to our funders, and handling invoices.

The working hours for this role are highly flexible, depending on the needs of Beaver Trust.

Curious to know more about this opportunity? Click the link below 👇
https://beavertrust.org/our-mission/careers/

Timeline photos 03/12/2023

A massive thank you to everyone who’s donated so far.

We’ve just reached 50% of our target, but there's only 2 days left!

Donate now to make double the difference for

https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

02/12/2023

The beavers in Ealing have got to work quickly, already building three dams, slowing the flow and alleviating urban flood risk.

Dr Sean McCormack, from Ealing Beaver Project and Beaver Trust Ambassador, gives us an update from Ealing, which has just been opened to the public! With plans on the horizon to bring the teachings from beavers and thriving wetlands into local schools, Sean explains how funding the work of Beaver Trust could unlock invaluable community engagement opportunities for projects like Ealing.

Visit the link below to donate and help us continue our work.
https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

All donations made before midday on Tuesday 5th December will be doubled!

Dr Sean McCormack: Conservationist, Vet, Presenter
Ealing Wildlife Group

01/12/2023
01/12/2023

“This translocation, which is likely the first of many that Forestry and Land Scotland will facilitate, is another great step forward in helping to expand the population of beavers in Scotland." - Lorna Slater, Minister for Green Skills, Circular Economy and Biodiversity.

Earlier this month we released three pairs of beavers at sites managed by Forestry and Land Scotland.

These wild releases are a much welcomed step in realising action points outlined in the National Beaver Strategy and in strengthening this protected species status in Scotland.

Appropriate translocations, not only support those land managers experiencing conflicts but also those seeking to encourage the biodiversity benefits beavers can bring

Read more about the releases 👇

https://buff.ly/414n3xR

Photos from Beaver Trust's post 30/11/2023

Food. Shelter. Incubation.

Beavers create habitats in which innumerable species of plants, fungi, fish, invertebrates , amphibians, and mammals can thrive.

Help us restore beavers to tackle the biodiversity crisis.

Donate today and double your donation👇

https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

Restoring Beavers to Regenerate our Landscapes 29/11/2023

We're so pleased to see CNN's feature on Ealing Beaver Project, showing the positive impacts the beaver family is already having, creating dams and transforming the hydrology of the site💧

Join Dr Sean McCormack, Beaver Trust ambassador, as he explains how by slowing the flow, beavers can be a natural solution to reduce flooding downstream during and after heavy rainfall events, building resilience into our urban landscapes and boosting community nature connection opportunities.
https://buff.ly/49S8RMt

If you would like to help bring beavers back to Britain, boosting landscape resilience in the face of the climate emergency, you can donate to our Big Give campaign.
Until 5th December, all donations made via The Big Give will be doubled by generous match funders! To donate, head to the link below 👇
https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

Ealing Wildlife Group, Dr Sean McCormack: Conservationist, Vet, Presenter, Citizen Zoo, Five Sisters Zoo, Ealing Council, Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, Dr Aysha Raza

Restoring Beavers to Regenerate our Landscapes Beavers bring huge environmental benefits. The wetlands they create help protect us from flood and drought, create habitat for an …

Photos from Beaver Trust's post 29/11/2023

Earlier this month we shared the heartwarming success story of the first beaver kit born at Five Sisters Zoo

Without your support our team wouldn't have been able to provide the sensitive care to keep the female and her family calm and comfortable to give the kit the best chance of survival.

The kit is now thriving at the National Trust's Wallington Estate in Northumberland. You can help our Restoration Team continue their vital work.

Donate today to double your impact 👇

https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

28/11/2023

This , you can do something brilliant for beavers 🦫

One donation, twice the impact!

We've joined the Big Give's Christmas Challenge where every £1 donated will be doubled through match-funding until the 5th of December.

Please visit the link below to donate and help us continue our work 👇
https://buff.ly/3sSkYIz

27/11/2023

Who better to close the fifth series of than the man, the myth, the legend - Gerhard Schwab?!

Regarded by many as the ‘Beaver Godfather’ of Europe, Gerhard has a lifetime of dedication to beaver reintroduction and human/wildlife coexistence gaining him major prominence in the beaver restoration movement across Europe.

In 1988, Gerhard began what started as a four-year review of Bavarian beavers. Ever since then, he has been involved in reintroduction programmes across Europe. He’s designed and implemented a beaver management system for Bavaria, and a training system attended by over 700 local beaver consultants.

It's safe to say that Gehard has enormous respect across the reintroduction sector. Without further ado, we invite you to sit comfortably and tune into this frank, pragmatic and provoking conversation!

Also coming up: the final of the series, a quiz, and a special visit from marvellous Producer Emma, who will give the final scores of the series. Hold onto your (non-beaver) hats!

Listen 🎧 Subscribe 📩 Share ♻
https://buff.ly/46fcU2s

The Lodge Cast is a factual audio series co-hosted by Beaver Trust's Eva Bishop and Sophie Pavelle, produced/edited by Science Communicator Emma Brisdion.

Communications form a core element of our work at Beaver Trust. Find out more here: https://buff.ly/3Mw7k4y

‘Always Champion the Underbug’: Career insights with beaver specialist Dr. Roisin Campbell-Palmer - Beaver Trust 23/11/2023

"In Norway you just got thrown in at the deep end - on the beaver team that was you out night trapping on the boat, setting up equipment, lifting and lugging stuff, staying out til the early hours, trapping and taking samples. It was so cold, absolutely freezing. It was sink or swim, and I’ve never looked back."

Huge congratulations to Dr Roisin Campbell-Palmer, our Head of Restoration, who was Highly Commended in the Nature for Scotland RSPB Species Champion Award last night.

Find out how her journey to this point in her career unfolded and what she hopes for next for the species here in Britain.

‘Always Champion the Underbug’: Career insights with beaver specialist Dr. Roisin Campbell-Palmer - Beaver Trust It started with a pond… and was nurtured through some pivotal early years connected to nature. A strong-willed, five year old wildlife champion at primary school became a national species trailblazer by accepting opportunities and pursuing her passion for animal welfare. Dr Roisin Campbell-Palmer,...

21/11/2023

In episode 3 of Series5, to help us better understand the Scottish lived experience with beavers, and to unpack the opportunities presented by the landmark Scottish Beaver Strategy, we speak to Dr Jenny Bryce a Wildlife Ecologist for NatureScot.

We then pull on our boots, and hit the ground running in a conversation with Dr Roisin Campbell-Palmer - Beaver Trust’s Head of Restoration and the Lodge Cast’s debut returning guest! Roisin offers a reality check on the management of beavers on the field, and reminds us of the hierarchy of mitigation techniques. No situation is the same - it’s catchment dependent - and coexistence often calls for a complex blend of the human and the ecological.

Both women deliver a fascinating conversation into where Britain is at with beaver reintroduction, and what lessons one nation can learn from another - and how a well-managed, supported future alongside beavers is something we must expect and hope for.

Also coming up: the challenge gets hot and Eva tests Sophie to the limits in the QUIZ...need we say more? Dive on in!

Listen🎧 Subscribe 📩 Share♻️

https://buff.ly/3sxWbtr

is a factual audio series co-hosted by Beaver Trust's Eva Bishop and Sophie Pavelle, produced/edited by Science Communicator Emma Brisdion.

Communications form a core element of our work at Beaver Trust.

Find out more here:

https://buff.ly/3Mw7k4y

16/11/2023

Discover the heart-warming story of the first beaver kit born at Five Sisters Zoo that was released, and is now thriving, at the National Trust Wallington Estate in Northumberland.

Told by those who went above and beyond to make it possible.

Watch the full behind-the-scenes film here👇

https://buff.ly/3sAnH9A

14/11/2023

In episode two of The Lodge Cast Series 5, we were thrilled to be able to speak with Dr Jitka Uhlíková, - a zoologist who works for the Nature Conservation Agency of the Czech Republic and coordinates their beaver management plan.

This conversation is an invaluable exploration of the scenario-led approach to beaver management, and Jitka’s experience provides much-needed insight and reassurance for us in Britain. We learn about the ‘five pillars’ of beaver management Jitka and her team operate within, and how mitigation decisions can make or break coexistence.

Also coming up, the challenge continues and Eva sits in the hot seat during Sophie’s quiz. Need we say more? Dive on in!

Listen🎧 Subscribe 📩 Share ♻️
https://buff.ly/46fcU2s

The Lodge Cast is a factual audio podcast series co-hosted by Beaver Trust's Eva Bishop and Sophie Pavelle, produced and edited by Science Communicator Emma Brisdion.

Communications form a core element of our work at Beaver Trust. Find out more: https://buff.ly/3Mw7k4y

Agentura ochrany přírody a krajiny

13/11/2023

We are thrilled to announce the launch of our updated website! 🦫💻

Learn all about beavers, gain insights into our restoration work, find out how you can support our mission, and access a range of free educational resources.

Visit https://beavertrust.org/ now!

10/11/2023
2023 Beaver kits 08/11/2023

So wonderful to hear that the beaver family at Willington Wetlands have welcomed their second generation of kits this year 🙌

2023 Beaver kits

07/11/2023

Greetings, fair listeners - lend us your ears - SERIES 5 of has arrived!

With weekly episodes throughout November, hear from world-leading beaver practitioners as we navigate fascinating conversations exploring ‘Beavers and Management’ - this is your opportunity to hear how beaver management works and what’s going on here in Britain.

Episode 1, we meet The Beaver Institute President, Mike Callahan, learning mitigation lessons from the US.

Listen🎧 Subscribe 📩 Share♻️

https://buff.ly/3QQCMgE

is a factual audio series co-hosted by Beaver Trust's Eva Bishop and Sophie Pavelle, produced/edited by Science Communicator Emma Brisdion.

Communications form a core element of our work at Beaver Trust. Find out more here👇

https://buff.ly/3Mw7k4y

Timeline photos 06/11/2023

We have an exciting opportunity for a freelance administrator to provide support for our Restoration Team on multiple overseas projects.

As an administrator, you'll play a key role in coordinating various stages of project work, including arranging initial scoping calls within country teams, managing feedback to our funders, and handling invoices.

The working hours for this role are highly flexible, depending on the needs of Beaver Trust.

Curious to know more about this opportunity? Click the link below 👇
https://beavertrust.org/our-mission/careers/

Photos from Beaver Trust's post 02/11/2023

How Beaver Dams Can Restore Streams

Beaver dams in incised channels can serve as catalysts for stream evolution and floodplain reconnection. Ultimately boosting water storage and creating habitat for a range of freshwater species.

Today, many restoration strategies embrace this approach, employing man-made alternatives known as 'beaver dam analogues' or 'log jams’ to replicate the process.

However, an often-overlooked aspect is the maintenance requirement for these woody leaky dams, as they can suffer damage during high flows. This upkeep can be both time-consuming and costly for humans. In contrast, within an active beaver territory, any damaged dams are typically repaired within 24 to 48 hours for free. We simply can't compete!

We don't just need the structures beavers create; we need the beavers themselves.

Read the full paper👇
https://buff.ly/40kkRSq

Beaver Trust response to UK Government’s statement on species reintroduction - Beaver Trust 31/10/2023

The UK Government's recent statement regarding species reintroduction has left us with mixed feelings.

While we welcome news that beavers in England will retain their protected status and are pleased to see commitment to the creation of buffer zones along watercourses through the Environmental Land Management Schemes (ELMS), we’re deeply concerned about the government's stance that species reintroductions aren’t a priority.

This shows a deep disconnect in the Government’s understanding of the role keystone species such as the beaver can play in creating, restoring, and maintaining biodiverse habitats. This is a critical time and we need to act urgently to tackle the biodiversity crisis and meet the targets contained within the 25-Year Environment Plan.

Beavers have clear public support, robust scientific evidence, a well-defined management framework, and the science shows how beavers benefit our environment, supporting countless species. If we truly want to address the biodiversity crisis and meet our own environmental goals, we need to prioritise beaver reintroduction.

We urge the government to stick to its commitment, publish a wild-release licensing framework, and develop a comprehensive national strategy for beavers in England. Let's not deprioritise the potential of these keystone species in creating, restoring, and maintaining biodiverse habitats.

You can read our full statement here 👇

Beaver Trust response to UK Government’s statement on species reintroduction - Beaver Trust Friday 27th of October saw the publication of the UK Government’s response to the EFRA Select Committee’s Report on Species Reintroduction. We welcome their confirmation that the protected status of beavers in England will not be reviewed and are pleased to see commitment to the creation of buff...

27/10/2023

Exciting news! Our friends at Beds, Cambs and Northants Wildlife Trust are on a mission to bring beavers back to Nene Wetlands!

Tune in as our Head of Communications, Eva Bishop, discusses this remarkable project with BBC Radio Northants, from why projects like this are so important and how beavers are likely to change the environment there, to why the nature reserves' proximity to a retail park is actually a positive thing and how beavers act as an antidote to eco-anxiety.

Listen to the full feature, starting at 02:40:40👇

https://buff.ly/40eEwDf

If you would like to help bring beavers back to Northamptonshire, you can donate to the fundraising campaign👇

https://buff.ly/3SgX8k6

BBC Sounds Listen without limits, with BBC Sounds. Catch the latest music tracks, discover binge-worthy podcasts, or listen to radio shows – all whenever you want

Beavers could be introduced at 3 River Spey sites from end of November: What you need to know 27/10/2023

"we’re not just moving one or two families to be a wee tourist attraction in the Spey catchment, what we’re seeking to do is reestablish a wild population"

Congratulations to the Cairngorms National Park on applying for a licence to release beavers into the wild in the national park.

This has been an exemplary project, carried out by an exceptional team, that we're proud to have contributed to.

Beavers could be introduced at 3 River Spey sites from end of November: What you need to know Beavers were hunted to extinction in Scotland hundreds of years ago, but they could now by returning to the Cairngorms.

First Wild Beavers Are Back In London & Kleptoparasitic Flies | 8 Out Of 10 Bats [Episode 1] 25/10/2023

First Wild Beavers Are Back In London & Kleptoparasitic Flies | 8 Out Of 10 Bats [Episode 1] First Wild Beavers Are Back In London & Kleptoparasitic FliesPre-order an 8 Out Of 10 Bats pin badge at https://chrispackh.am/pinbadgeFollow us on social med...

Timeline photos 23/10/2023

Between 18th - 20th April, Beaver Trust was delighted to collaborate with the University of Exeter and Devon Wildlife Trust on to share state-of-the-art understanding from research, policy and practitioner experience of beaver restoration with over 200 international delegates.

We have compiled a landmark report summarising the key learnings and takeaways from this historic three-day event across national policy across the devolved nations, the latest findings in academia, management practice techniques and coexistence.

The is open access, available to view and download via our website: https://buff.ly/48Tp0Rj

Do you have any questions, comments or concerns about the report? We’d love to hear from you: [email protected]

20/10/2023
19/10/2023

The Wildlife Trust for Beds, Cambs & Northants have a plan to bring beavers back to Northamptonshire, but they need your help!

Introducing beavers to Nene Wetlands will restore areas of reedbed, diversify the marginal vegetation and reduce the burden of willow management on staff and contractors through their foraging behaviours.

You can help bring beavers back to Northamptonshire by donating to their fundraiser today 👇

Photos from Argaty Red Kites's post 18/10/2023
18/10/2023

We're thrilled to announce that Maddie Moate is joining the team as our newest ambassador! 🎉

Maddie is an award-winning presenter, YouTuber and children's author, best known for presenting the CBeebies science series Maddie's Do You Know?

On her own YouTube channel, Maddie has been creating fun educational videos for the past ten years in the hope of encouraging a new audience to stay curious, adventurous and cultivate a love for the natural world.

Her first book "Stuff", is full of mind-bursting facts and extraordinary stories of the ingenious ways people around the world, and across history, have made, used and reused the stuff around them, inspiring a curiosity and sense of wonder about a more sustainable future.

Welcome to the team, Maddie! 🦫

16/10/2023

How does it feel to see beavers taking their first steps into their new home after months of preparation?

Hear from Beaver Trust's Dr Roisin Campbell-Palmer, Dr Sean McCormack: Conservationist, Vet, Presenter of Ealing Wildlife Group, and Elliot Newton of Citizen Zoo about how they felt after the release, how to get involved in citizen science, how to watch beavers safely and Sean's advice to landowners interested in becoming a beaver release site.

Please do note that Paradise Fields is currently closed to visitors to let the family settle in, but will reopen on the 11th of November.

Five Sisters Zoo, Ealing Council

11/10/2023

London's first urban beavers make a splash!

It's an absolute joy to release a family of beavers into Paradise Fields, Ealing and to see them exploring their new home.

The family were released with kits, one of which can be seen exploring the water's edge in the second video 🦫

It’s incredibly rewarding to see community-driven action to reconnect more people with nature and welcome beavers back into this urban landscape 🏙️ The Ealing Beaver Project will offer a blueprint for other community restoration projects driven by passionate people looking to build local landscape resilience.

Projects like these offer an ideal opportunity to promote engagement with beavers while we await a national policy framework for wild releases.

We're looking forward to working with the team here to facilitate education on beavers and the importance of giving nature more space and to help build a better understanding of this dynamic ecosystem engineer.

You can find out more by reading the news article 👇
https://beavertrust.org/london-welcomes-urban-beavers-for-first-time/

Ealing Wildlife Group, Citizen Zoo, Five Sisters Zoo, Ealing Council, Dr Sean McCormack: Conservationist, Vet, Presenter

10/10/2023

Have you ever wondered what time spent in a thriving beaver wetland might do for your mental health? 🌿

This , we're reflecting on our conversation with Sam Gandy, an ecologist and researcher from Imperial College London, who collaborated with Clinical Psychologist Dr Ros Watts on ground-breaking research focusing on the psychological benefits of beaver reintroduction.

Their research suggests that beavers act as 'super restorers', not only for restoring our ecosystems but psychologically too. By creating biodiverse natural environments, beavers offer us a chance to reconnect with nature on a deeper level, potentially alleviating eco-anxiety and inspiring a renewed sense of hope.

Sam reminds us that it's not just about facts and figures; it's about the emotional connection that beavers represent—a story of hope and transformation in a world where 'shifting baseline syndrome' threatens our understanding of what's natural.

Listen to the episode 👇
https://buff.ly/3rJL5km

Read the paper 👇
https://buff.ly/48Mk14I

Timeline photos 09/10/2023

Applications to join our Board of Trustees close at 5pm today. Don't miss your chance to get involved and help shape the future of beavers in Britain!

Read the application pack and find out how to apply by clicking the link below 👇https://beavertrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Trustee-Recruitment-Pack.pdf

Are you ready to make a real impact and shape the future of beavers in Britain? 🌍 Beaver Trust is on the lookout for dynamic individuals to join our esteemed Board of Trustees!

🚜 Do you have experience in farming, environmental finance and subsidies, company law or safeguarding? If you can bring expertise in any of these areas, we want to hear from you.

🌐 This is a remote role, empowering you to contribute your expertise from anywhere, but if you have a deep connection to the landscapes and communities where Beaver Trust works, particularly in northern England, Wales and Scotland, your local insights could be invaluable as we strive for positive change. Plus, there's a chance to connect in person during board meetings and social events.

🤝 It's a volunteer role, but the rewards are immeasurable. As a Trustee, you'll hold the highest level of governance and decision-making authority, guiding the decisions and actions that define our work and steering the course for impactful change.

🌿 Diversity drives us. We're dedicated to building a Board of Trustees that represents a wide range of professional and personal backgrounds with unique experiences and perspectives.

For more information and to join us in championing nature's engineers, the beavers, apply through the link below.
https://buff.ly/45nGlzs

06/10/2023

Duncan Reed, an acoustic folk singer-songwriter based in Manchester is very generously donating the proceeds of his new album, The Road Part II, to Beaver Trust!

For one day each month, Bandcamp waives the fees for the artist when you purchase any of their music, so if you purchase the album today, 100% of the money you pay will go directly towards aiding our work in restoring beavers to regenerate our landscapes.

Head to the link below to download the album 👇
https://duncanreed.bandcamp.com/album/the-road-part-ii

Thank you, Duncan Reed, for your support and dedication to conservation through music 🎶

is an amazing thing for musicians as Bandcamp waive any fees for one day each month, meaning that 100% of the money goes to musicians.

In my case, with the release of “The Road part II”, it means that 100% of the money you pay will go to Beaver Trust to aid their work in restoring beavers to regenerate our landscapes and make them more resilient to climate change.

Beavers are truly incredible creatures and the more I learn about them, the more I feel they are vital to the British landscape.

https://duncanreed.bandcamp.com/album/the-road-part-ii

Videos (show all)

SUBTITLED Sean's Ealing Update for BG (1).mp4
7. Beaver being released at FLS site in Knapdale (c) Beaver Trust.mp4
Copy of BG Ambassador Plea Christmas 2023.mp4
Ep4 .mp4
Ep3 .mp4
The Wallington Beaver Family
Ep2.mp4
New Website Announcement video.mp4
Ep1 .mp4
Maddie BT intro video_portrait.mp4
Ealing post release interview.mp4
"I challenge you to watch these images and not smile, and we could all do with a bit of smiling, couldn't we?"We couldn'...